tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8147218231135584040.post5179741124521599594..comments2024-01-05T07:11:59.686-07:00Comments on About 98 Percent Done: A subject of the hiring process...JCDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10303319920589197377noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8147218231135584040.post-22446499169215212112013-09-09T16:01:16.328-06:002013-09-09T16:01:16.328-06:001 - I try and focus on the development side as wel...1 - I try and focus on the development side as well. I have found that the specific technology that someone uses is less important then their ability to understand the underlying development practices.<br /><br />I have people write me some brief code snippet, Fizz Buzz, Some Math function or something else. After they complete the code, I then ask them to test it. Most people fail at step one, most that make it past step one fail at step two. But it's the thought process they describe to me that really make me say yes or no to a candidate on 'automation'.<br /><br />2 - At previous places I prefer to ask a question that directly relates "How would you test a login page" as that was one of our pages. However, depending on how complex the SUT is, I can also deal with asking a physical object test. But I don't think the questions are equivalent. (BLOG TBD…)<br /><br />3 - Personally I would love to see 3 month probation periods in tech. However, there is lots of morale and potential for employer abuse there (we'll hire them for 3 months, then say they don't work out, then let them go). You'd really have to trust an organization to go in with that option (but I have done it). That being said, I'm gone to a company that had that policy, it worked out great, they didn't know me, I didn't know them. After three months both of us were happy, and we decided to continue our relationship.<br /><br />Because most places don't use that policy I error on the side of don't hire. I really don't like to fire people, nothing is more stressful (at least that I've experienced). Plus most people don't like to be fired :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8147218231135584040.post-12272352819563111882013-09-09T11:21:54.321-06:002013-09-09T11:21:54.321-06:00Thanks, Isaac and I have worked together for a lon...Thanks, Isaac and I have worked together for a long time, so I'd like to think we know how to work with each other.<br /><br />1. I would love to... that is actually a part of that 'part 2' I want to do. I don't want to talk of Isaac's questions, as he will probably reply too, however, I will talk about my own questions. I typically look to see if the person understands development and if they understand test more than how to write automation. Since I think automation is a subsection of development, I care more about that than the details of automation. <br /><br />I might ask, "Here is some code: . Tell me what bugs are in it." I am looking for their ability to understand the syntax, their ability to note issues in code and I want to hear them talk it out. I want to know if they can read other peoples code. I want to see both their testing technique (as they may have to write or at least read other people's unit tests) as well as their technical skills.<br /><br />If I ask a directly automation related question, it might be, "what sorts of things can you ask the developers to do in order to properly automate a project?" where might be , , , , etc. I am looking for their experience in automation by trying to determine what sorts of issues they see in automation.<br /><br />2. I'll keep that in mind for a future blog. :)<br /><br />3. I think the problem is that is a corp culture issue. Some places don't mind getting rid of someone bad, but the risk of lawsuits and the likes are great. I can't speak to the details, but I know HR in some organizations is and has to be very risk adverse because of that possibility. <br /><br />Three month contracts, while they sound good, can be bad for morale. Imagine hiring someone who you like working with simply disappearing one day, with HR cleaning out their desk. Now imagine two employees leaving on the same week and the rumor mill will create a mess. And yes, that is a true story. Oh, and I was one of the two people leaving, so it was interesting having people ask me about an employee who was let go on his 90th day. Needless to say, I don't know if that was a one off or typical as I had not heard of many people being told 'we don't want you' after 90 days but also was not a manager who was directly involved in the choices.<br /><br />Could it work? Sure, but not in the environments I've been in.JCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10303319920589197377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8147218231135584040.post-4215670863805796822013-09-09T06:39:48.217-06:002013-09-09T06:39:48.217-06:00Thanks for the post, Jeremy. Even in just two post...Thanks for the post, Jeremy. Even in just two posts, I can see how you and Isaac have complementary styles - it's nice. Would you mind a couple questions?<br /><br />1) You said Issac might "Ask an automation question" - Could you elaborate on what these sound like? I can think of some very different automation questions. Mine would typically be "I see you have (tool) on your resume. Tell me about a time you used (tool)." and a roving conversation.<br /><br />2) I think it'd be nice to elaborate on interviews and tests for physical objects vs. how would you test the actual work. I'm a fan of both.<br /><br />3) One common line I see in interviews is that keeping the bad hires out is critical - that if a company wanted to make a mistake, it would fail be by hiring too few, instead of fail by hiring too many. I wonder if there is a middle course - 3-month contract-to-hire choices? It seems to me that many companies that choose this route end up hiring the person on day 90 and regretting that two years later, mostly because of fear of conflict at go-no-go decision time. I wonder if we could decrease the stigma on both sides of the table from a no-go decision. (Having worked in not-great-fit environments myself, today, a 3-month contract followed by starting fresh is better, in my mind, than a temp-to-hire at a place I don't want to be.)<br /><br />Anyway, nice post, thanks.<br /> Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05956714498778698672noreply@blogger.com